on 2 May 2004 : 14:55, Liz sez:
on 2 May 2004 : 15:44, Jon sez:
Hey Liz, y don't u post some comments on their pages? Seems the only input they have is from rah-rah war types. It'll be to their own benefit to look beyond the jingistic lies and see the war for what it is.
on 2 May 2004 : 19:57, C(h)ristine sez:
I'm against the war -- but I find it distasteful for people to post insults on the pages of the men and women actually fighting this war in Iraq. They are there, risking their lives, on orders of our federal government.
on 2 May 2004 : 22:18, misuba sez:
I wonder if the people administering the war are happy to have their soldiers carrying cameras?
Not after this, they aren't.
on 2 May 2004 : 23:45, Jon sez:
C(h)ristine: I find what's being done to Iraqi civilians distasteful! The soldiers are risking their lives to oppress another people. The Iraqi civilian to US soldier death ratio is more than 10 to 1.
Sure the federal government is ordering them what to do, but does that mean they have no personal responsibility? Were the Nazi soldiers all innocent, and just Hitler the bad guy? Surely not
Maybe some are at least inwardly against what they're doing, and given their circumstances that's all they can do. But so many more are "ra ra, we're doing this for the freedom of the Iraqis, spreading democracy to the savages." And the soldiers posting those photos seem to be in that camp. Hardly innocent, and certainly not heroes by a long shot.
The whole "oppose the war, but support our troops" is a big contradiction.
on 3 May 2004 : 08:06, C(h)ristine sez:
War is a f'd up thing. People die in unjust and arbitrary ways. People die at the hands of hatred. Did we think it would be pretty? I don't like what we're doing to the Iraqi civilians. But then again, the military is dealing with guerrila and probably terrorist tactics out there. It's hard to say, and I don't want to make a statement sitting from the sofa of my nice little place with my dog sitting on my lap with a bowl of cereal in front of me about what is really going on in the frontlines of Iraq. Those soldiers are going through hell.
I don't want any more Iraqi civilians to die, and I don't want any more American soldiers to die, either. So what's the point of telling an American soldier off? I don't see how that would actually be helpful. I wouldn't expend my fury/wrath/indignance at a soldier.
And what would result from "converting a soldier that what he is doing in Iraq is wrong?" Is he/she going to go AWOL? What would happen to his/her life? What tangible difference would it make out there in the desert of Iraq?
Donate to Kerry's political fund. Do a MoveOn.org bakesale. Lots of other ways to expend energy.
I wouldn't compare our military to the Nazis. That's a strong statement. I am not advocating a blanket "oppose the war, support our troops" statement -- but you have to realize that our troops are full of young American men, whose lives are just as valuable. I don't sit and cheer them, but I don't want to condemn them, either.
Just protest in more effective ways.
on 3 May 2004 : 08:41, Michael sez:
In my opinion those recent occurences in Iraq are proof to me that there is still an assumption amongst most of the allies that this conflict (or any other conflict) is controllable. Germany and France -amongst other issues- were the only major nations that do not support this argument. And why should they ?
The torturing and portraying of iraqui civilians -as we have seen in the last days- is utterly despicable - no doubt about it. The damage caused by this is unrepairable and will last in islamic minds for a very long time.
But I also have to say that these pictures didn't surprise me in the slightest. These soldiers are -like every other soldier in a war situation- under extreme pressure. The coalition powers still believe that they can control this situation - just like they controlled the high-tech machinery some months back.
It doesn't work like this, I'm afraid. I am no soldier and I have never fought at a army frontline, but I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to realise what these soldiers are going through. On the one hand, there is a life-and-death situation immediately around them. On the other hand, there is a "whiter-than-white" expectancy in their home countries.
Christine's Nazi comparison is too harsh - simply because this war is still (supposedly) faught to free Iraq. Nazi Germany had no good cause in mind when it was at war with its neighbours.
on 3 May 2004 : 08:56, justin sez:
Michael - Nazi Germany had no good cause in mind when it was at war with its neighbors? How about the 1000-year reich? That was a pretty good cause, if you were sitting in a big chair in Berlin in 1939.
The United States hopes to remake the Middle East for liberal democracy. Germany hoped to remake Europe for National Socialism. More people seem to like liberal democracy these days. But mostly people just want to have the chance to live freely, and maybe the chance to impose their beliefs on others.
on 3 May 2004 : 11:08, Mike B. sez:
Fascinating sets of photos at Yafro. Looks like the boys in Mosul have some time on thier hands. Either that, or this dude spends every second of his liberty geeking out on the net. If the latter is the case, God bless him!
on 3 May 2004 : 15:59, C(h)ristine sez:
ahem -- i didn't compare the U.S. military to the Nazis (someone else did, and it's clearly a debatable statement).